Terry Gross: Our next guest ,Yanar Mohammed is an Iraqi women's rights activist. In 2003, after the fall of Baghdad, she co-founded the Organization for Women's Freedom in Iraq which she now directs. She was raised in Iraq, moved to Canada in 1993 and since 2003 has divided her time between Iraq and Ontario. She returned from her latest trip to Baghdad a couple of weeks ago. She cut the trip short because of threats against her.
Q: What was your position on the invasion?
A: I was in total rejection of this occupation because we could see beforehand that it will take away the civility from our lives. A military invasion cannot but destroy our lives and bring out the worst in the society and it did.
Q: Do you think the US should pull out now, and if not now, when?
I think US should pull out immediately, because the more we are subject to a military situation, the worse we are and more attractive our cities are for all the mujaheddin coming from all over the world to fight what they call the big evil, which is the US Army.
Q: If US pulls out now does that stand to help or hurt the cause of women's rights? Will it empower militia leaders if the US pulls out now, will it empower Islamic fundamentalists?
A: As long as the US army is staying in Iraq, it has already empowered Islamist factions and it has handed over the power to them. They feel very free to walk around the street and to oppress women the way they like and they have multiplied in ways where they have now militias, they have gangs, they have self-acclaimed vigilantes who feel free to kill whichever women they find on their streets. And this happens under the blessings and the existence of the US Army. Why? Because they say it is democracy and will not interfere with what's happening in the Iraqi streets.
Q: How do you think the surge and the successes it has had has affected women in Iraq?
A: The very much celebrated surge in Iraq and the relative security that it has created was something that the US government over-celebrated. In Iraq we are desperate to have some security and it would make me very happy to tell you this surge was successful. But in reality this surge was only arming and supporting one extra militia, which is Sunni, which is made of the tribes of the Sunni Arabs in some parts of the suburbs of Baghdad and the Sunni triangle and these are some of the worst places for women and the worst groups to empower in Iraq. So what happened in the last two weeks, again a rise in violence and increase in the number of explosions, and women their situations are as bad as they used to be. Actually in the southern cities of Basra and Amarra the levels of womens killings did rise to levels that were unprecedented and they are still rising and nothing is being done about it.
Q: As part of the surge, the US has paid Sunni militia leaders to stop fighting. Are you saying that some of the people we've been paying to put their arms down now are actually some of the same people are the most repressive of women?
A: Yes they are. Sunni tribal heads, in their parts of Iraq the young girls are not allowed to education, multiple marriages are something common that happens every day. This is the group which was empowered and if we're discussing whether it is a good solution I take you to the root of the problem. The original policy was to divide Iraqis into Sunnis and Shiites and later on when the Shiites became stronger, by the American and Iranian and other countries' support, the Americans decided to empower the Sunnis. So the question here is why divide in the first place if you don't want to conquer? Why empower one group and wait for them to kill the other group and then empower the second group? The only natural consequence of that is that the second group will be killing the first group and the sectarian conflict will go on and on. The whole political formula was wrong and it was a big mistake dividing Iraqis on religious and sectarian lines.
Why couldn't the division be on political lines like in the U.S. like anywhere in the world where you have the right-wing conservative parties the left wing leftist parties and the center? Why did it have to be on the religious sectarian and ethnic lines?
If it explains one thing, it explains that the US administration looked at Iraqis in a racist way.
Q: When the US does eventually leave Iraq, would you like to see any military forces stay behind?
A: If there are any military forces we would prefer them not to be American, to be multinational forces of a neutral nature. We know that is very difficult.
If you ask me I prefer to stay with Iraqi forces. And the common ground of elections may help us to kick out some of the bad figures or the bad movements that have come into Iraq. And there should be no more US military existence in Iraq.
Q: What make you think the death toll will decrease when the Americans pull out?
A: It will not decrease immediately. But the death toll of women matches the empowerment of Islamic parties in Iraq. If the islamist groups and tribal groups are strong the killings of women are more. If the islamic groups are feel threatened and are weaker the killings will be less.
If healthy political dynamics are supported in Iraq, the leftists side of the society will become stronger the killings of women will not be allowed to stay and the Islamists will become weaker.
The US troops have to leave and have to let these natural dynamics take place in Iraq.
Q: Are women represented in the Iraqi government now and is there a proportion in the Iraqi parliament set aside for women?
A: In the last round the proportion was 25% representation of women. Which is a very good number. But the problem was in this first round was that it was quantitive representation, half of them came from Islamist parties and they all voted against womens rights and they do not acknowlege women's issues and equality. So we do not know whether in this coming election if we can maintain the proportion of 25%. But we will definitely push for it and maybe this time some of us women activists, egalitarian womens activists let's call it, can make their way
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